Why do Christians attempt to "prove" their theories while Pagans simply have faith in the unseen?
We don’t really have a Pagan version of Kirk Cameron who runs off at the mouth about how Lightning must come from Thor or else we couldn’t turn our gadgets on and off with electricity…
We don’t have anybody on TV telling people that we will give them a free arrowhead blessed by Artemis if they donate their life savings to our Mega-Coven…
What’s the fundamental difference here?
I’m a Christian and I do not attempt prove my faith to anyone. I realize there is no proof. I think if God had wanted to provide compelling proof that all people would have to accept, he would simply appear each of us regularly, personally, and very dramatically. Then we would have no real choice but to worship him, and belief would rise to 100%.
By appearing primarily in the 1st century to those at the margins of society (whether there were other miracles over the ages too, I do not know), God certainly leaves room for reasonable doubt. Believing becomes a choice, not a necessity. I choose to believe. I think God prefers it that way, it provides a drama within which real love can arise. And love is more important to God than we can fully comprehend.
I can’t pretend to explain that eloquently or "prove it" to any of you. But I do speak up about my faith, because I believe that faith brings joy to the believer, to God, and (if that person acts on that faith in a genuine way) to the rest of us. And it pains me to see someone’s faith crushed by some sly argument that attempts to "prove" the nonexistence of God, or the falsehood of the basic message of the Gospel, so I’ll push back just as vigorously that the other side’s "proofs" have holes in them too.
It’s hard to make sense of everything sometimes, but it’s a lot harder for me to make sense of the universe in the absense of God. And my heart responds to Jesus as more genuinely from God than any other religious narrative.
The TV preachers and other loudmouths of the fundamentalist variety give Christ a bad name. Any honest reading of the Gospels shows Jesus as passionately opposed to fake, self-serving, self-righteous religious leaders.
I’m not sure what drives people to "paganism". Atheism/secularism I can grudgingly understand, as the coldly logical choice for people whose faith is dead. I’d speculate that most pagans had a bad experience with Christianity (or another monotheistic faith) and concluded it was false, but have strong spirits and can see the ridiculousness/insufficiency of the cold biochemical view of the cosmos. So they cling to stories that are not only nonprovable, but (unlike Christianity) have no connection at all to history, no witnesses who might be taken seriously. From what I have observed of them, pagans are gentle people, not cynical, willing to have faith in the unseen, probably would naturally gravitate towards Christ if they encountered Him in a genuine way. I have love for them and pray for them.
March 9th, 2010 at 7:05 am
they have more at stake. But I will say this. They were the ones who decided to play scientist here, not us. It is up to them to pull a rabbit out of their, ah, hat.
I don’t want to be insulting, I know many a Pagan. But nobody takes you seriously, they really don’t consider this to be a threat to their way of life, it is almost a moot point.
If they thought Pagans has political weight, and could sway their voting base, then they may try and stop Pagans. obviously, they have done so in the past.
Bottom line, they came, they conquered, they moved on to the next target.
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March 9th, 2010 at 7:39 am
Christians fell "threatened" by knowledge and reality.
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March 9th, 2010 at 8:22 am
As a pagan, I think your question is too narrow. There are plenty of Christians of faith and plenty of pagans, I call them playgans that don’t understand anything at all about their own beliefs.
On the other hand, pagans often practice magick. Given time, we see things that makes disbelief an exercise in self-deception.
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My life
March 9th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Pagans are not interested in proselytizing. Whereas the christians believe they are commanded by their god to witness and proselytize unbelievers. Hence they try to "prove" their beliefs to skeptics who see right through their ploy.
In addition, most pagans respect others and their beliefs or non-beliefs. Whereas most christians believe that all other beliefs are wrong, and they have the only "correct" belief.
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An atheist perspective.
March 9th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Christians are trying to convert the world so that their idea of heaven on Earth will finally come true.
Pagans just live and let live.
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March 9th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Not all Christians do this and I think this is only a small minority particularly the evangelicals. While pagans don’t have that, you are just like Christians. I’m not trying to be blunt or mean but both of you have faith in the unseen. The things that will not/cannot be proven. At least give some credit to the evangelicals who attempt to prove their faith, it shows at least they are trying to use reason. But it always fail when you adhere to a belief system.
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Atheist
March 9th, 2010 at 9:28 am
pagans aren’t generally dominionists, Christians are.
Christians are duty bound to paint all other faiths as ‘false’ , this includes trying to ‘prove’ their ‘god’ to non-believers.
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March 9th, 2010 at 9:55 am
To be honest, because no one takes pagans seriously. I can understand people being indoctrinated into a faith, but when grown people actually stand up and say"I believe in Thor/Hathor/Morrigan etc." we all sit back and just say, i bet you do.
If I’m honest, my view is that most pagans are actually pagans because its "cool", someone they fancy is doing it, they are actively trying to be different, or that they like the whole drunken rituals, cloaks, and spending time with nature.
References :
March 9th, 2010 at 10:43 am
I’m a Christian and I do not attempt prove my faith to anyone. I realize there is no proof. I think if God had wanted to provide compelling proof that all people would have to accept, he would simply appear each of us regularly, personally, and very dramatically. Then we would have no real choice but to worship him, and belief would rise to 100%.
By appearing primarily in the 1st century to those at the margins of society (whether there were other miracles over the ages too, I do not know), God certainly leaves room for reasonable doubt. Believing becomes a choice, not a necessity. I choose to believe. I think God prefers it that way, it provides a drama within which real love can arise. And love is more important to God than we can fully comprehend.
I can’t pretend to explain that eloquently or "prove it" to any of you. But I do speak up about my faith, because I believe that faith brings joy to the believer, to God, and (if that person acts on that faith in a genuine way) to the rest of us. And it pains me to see someone’s faith crushed by some sly argument that attempts to "prove" the nonexistence of God, or the falsehood of the basic message of the Gospel, so I’ll push back just as vigorously that the other side’s "proofs" have holes in them too.
It’s hard to make sense of everything sometimes, but it’s a lot harder for me to make sense of the universe in the absense of God. And my heart responds to Jesus as more genuinely from God than any other religious narrative.
The TV preachers and other loudmouths of the fundamentalist variety give Christ a bad name. Any honest reading of the Gospels shows Jesus as passionately opposed to fake, self-serving, self-righteous religious leaders.
I’m not sure what drives people to "paganism". Atheism/secularism I can grudgingly understand, as the coldly logical choice for people whose faith is dead. I’d speculate that most pagans had a bad experience with Christianity (or another monotheistic faith) and concluded it was false, but have strong spirits and can see the ridiculousness/insufficiency of the cold biochemical view of the cosmos. So they cling to stories that are not only nonprovable, but (unlike Christianity) have no connection at all to history, no witnesses who might be taken seriously. From what I have observed of them, pagans are gentle people, not cynical, willing to have faith in the unseen, probably would naturally gravitate towards Christ if they encountered Him in a genuine way. I have love for them and pray for them.
References :
March 9th, 2010 at 11:32 am
I think it’s a question of personality and upbringing. Pagans are tolerant, laid back, easy going and not compulsive, because their belief system is live and let live. Fundamentalists on the other hand are often hostile, fanatical and obsessional. Why ? because they are driven to convert others, because they think this will ensure their entry into heaven.
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March 9th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Christians are commanded by their religion to convert. They must share the "Good News". If you tell me what you believe, I’ll say, "Cool, this is what I believe…" If you say I’m wrong and you’re right, I’ll say, "Prove it."
No one asks pagans to prove anything because we aren’t out there converting. In fact, if someone tells me they want to be a pagan, I tell them to read everything, then decide. I don’t want to influence anyone from their path.
Whereas Christians will try to talk you into their faith. That’s why they get so much grief.
References :
Eclectic Pagan
March 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Oh please. We have our share of nut cases, probably more because the "tolerant" attitude we have accepts the rejects from the fringes. We just don’t get the media attention because like it was mentioned above, people don’t take us seriously.
I don’t try to prove anything because what is there to prove? I worship my ancestors. I know they existed, and I have record of it. We live by social structures that you can see and experience. Once again, there is no "faith" in that. Beyond that it’s personal. I don’t care if people believe in Thor or Odin. If Odin wants to talk to them he will. I could care less.
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Norse Heathen